如果唔識歐盟法律就唔好講咁多廢話

我提出BNO得到歐盟免簽背後的含義後,在網上討論區引發激烈討論,這點我理解,因為呢點踩中不承認BNO是英國人那些土共左仔條尾。

不過膠還膠,如果不知歐盟的免簽準則的話,我勸那些人還是去收工吧。

先看BBC報導特區護照歐盟免簽時的報導:
香港保安局長葉劉淑儀表示,歐盟這次給予香港特區護照持有人免簽證入境是無附帶條件的,但香港晚些時候將會與歐盟討論遣返經香港到歐洲的非法入境者安排。香港特區政府基本上已同意接收這類到歐洲的非法入境者。

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/chinese/news/newsid_1224000/12244542.stm

再看中國新華社,對歐盟俄國簽證協定的報導:

双方签署的关于简化签证和遣返非法移民的两个协定计划从今年底开始生效。根据协定,欧盟国家将简化俄公民进入欧盟的签证手续,可发给为期几个月到5年的多次和多年有效签证,并依据申根协定有关规定实行统一收费。俄总统助理、俄驻欧盟代表亚斯特尔任布斯基说,这是双方朝互免签证迈出的第一步。此外,根据协定,从俄境内进入欧盟国家的非法移民,应经俄罗斯遣返。

http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2006-05/26/content_4601094.htm

歐盟決定給予免簽與否,遣返協定極為重要。而BNO免簽的要點是,英國必須承擔BNO持有人的遣返責任。但之前都講過,英國承擔沒有英國居留權的BNO人遣返責任,這是講不通,因為英國本身就是歐盟成員,而之前,英國為BNO爭取免簽都是碰釘多過食飯,大家可以看1999年的立法會保安事務委員會的會議文件印證。

而如果沒有歐洲壓力,英國亦何用靜靜雞改了幾次英國國籍法,陸續讓BOC, BOTC, BS, BPP持有人擁有英國居留權。如果土共左仔,甚至一些民主派內針對我的人,還是亂講一通,我會勸那些膠人,自己去好好研究歐洲再來講廢話。英國人歧視華人一回事,但不代表英國可以連歐洲法律亦不理。

後話:那些Discuss的膠人,膠唔緊要,但唔好膠到無常識,舊款BNO上英文以外的文字,是法文,自己再看維基以下文字多一次:

British nationals who are not European citizens are issued what is known as “lookalike passports”. These are similar to normal British passports, except that they do not have the words “European Union” on the cover, and do not contain any EU-specific information inside, e.g., the words “Passport – United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” and the information on the photograph page are given only in English and French, rather than all the official languages of the European Union.

還有,歐洲人權法庭,與歐洲法庭不同,歐洲法庭的裁決不一定對英國具約束力,但歐洲人權法庭,是歐洲人權公約下成立的法院,英國作為簽字國,判決必須遵守,連上議院司法委員會都不例外。香港膠人多,無常識的白爛更多。而那些土共,就更是爛中之爛。

15 thoughts on “如果唔識歐盟法律就唔好講咁多廢話

  1. 黎黎去去都係visa-free entry vs. full EU rights問題。再講一次﹐你有visa-free entry entitlement唔等於擁有居留權﹐你護照度有入境印寫明你可以留幾耐﹐旅遊期間唔能夠工作﹐踰期居留可以掃把你走。理得你係唔係visa-free

  2. 1. 不要用[email protected]之類的電郵留言,否則我真係成把大掃把掃呢類爛人出街。

    2. 共產主義者一般不懂法我很理解,因為共產黨很多都不用法(法律是專政手段)。歐盟正是因為掃把唔知送條友去邊度的問題,才會一直不給BNO免簽,因為國際公法是,你持那一個國家的護照,你就是受誰的外交保護,誰就是接收地。BNO無英國居留權,那歐盟的掃把不知可以將他們掃到那裡去?

    3. 不要白痴地話香港是接收地,中國政府沒責任,亦不會為BNO持有人提供遣返接收,這亦不合符國際法。特別不少BNO持有人,BNO是唯一國籍。

    我對這種自以為好識法的白痴(香港好多,特別土共),我會當成年糕來料理。不知年糕被人怎料理,你去年糕料理館瞧瞧吧。

  3. 香港好多人唔係好識分 Citizenship, Nationality 同 Right of Abode。雖然係英國國藉法中,BNO係三四流國民,但係始終都係British。British 係一個collective noun,而英國人最識玩文字,將British Nationals (英國國民) 分為 British Citizen, British Overseas Citizen, British Overseas Territories Citizen, British Subject, British Protected Person 同 BNO。
    其實我都覺得有少少奇,香港仲係英國殖民地,大家仲係用BDTC時候,,理係最易有免簽。因為香港人係EU搞事,EU成員國可以將個人送去英國,而英國政府可以叫港府接收呢個人。但係97後,香港政府無理由再聽英國枝笛。如果個人無$$,遣返去香港的機票錢好可以仲要英國政府出。

  4. Cat Jacob:你講中要點了,英國政府現階段無理由承擔香港人的遣返責任,港府亦不由英國控制,剩下解釋便是英國人的文字遊戲已經破功。歐洲人同英國人鬥左咁多年,你估佢地唔知英國人的古惑野。

  5. 其實英國人有幾用心向EU代BNO holders 爭取免簽真係多極有限。係80’s時候英國初時曾經想過連BNO都唔出,等香港人係97後自動做Chinese Citizen。但係中國當年仲係好比較共產,專制;英國政府怕張香港人係97一腳踢入鐵幕國家會俾外國其它政府批評,而Macau 居民有Full Portuguese Citizenship,佢英國政府先因為要keep住少少face至俾香港人一個古怪英國國籍。

    不過N年後,假如EU or 英國真係俾BNO holders有full European Citizen Rights,英國人一定又出招。好似07新加入EU兩個前東歐國家,英國俾佢地可以黍英國,不過係頭幾年(or 10 years)要佢地做registration先可以係英國工作,英國個理由係要一步一步吸收immigrants。而個兩個窮的新EU members 個政府就唔敢大聲話UK discriminates against 自己國民,因為窮國邊有外交呀!

    不過你提到BRITISH CITIZENS WHO ARE NOT NATIONALS OF THE UNITED
    KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND FOR THE
    PURPOSES OF COMMUNITY LAW:
    British Nationals (Overseas)
    我就真係唔明:上文個wording係指BNO係呢份文件係叫British Citizen,但係Citizen 同 National都係指一國國民/人,但係一個國家要對Citizen負出好多責任,當然Citizen亦要負一 d National唔要負的責任(e.g. 入伍去為國家打仗)。

  6. 英國邊有fight過,如果有就唔駛等到香港被中國接管十年至突然間搞掂。一直在接收遣返問題上傾唔掂數就知。所以呢鋪免簽,唔似係英國成功爭取,反而似乎BNO變成EU Citizenship的sign。

    但對英國立場,佢寧可BNO易入黎,好過東歐果堆窮國。因為東歐國家唔係斯拉夫人,就係同德國淵源深,英國好難管佢地。香港人話晒,都係英國人教出黎。

    點解BNO都係一種British Citizenship,因為你在英國合法住夠半年, BNO持有人可以登記做選民,而特區護照唔得。同埋持BNO在英國,有好多英國政府唔宣傳的權利,以及義務,例如呢點係歐洲佬成日揸住黎寸。

  7. 好少香港人好似你咁對國籍法咁有興趣………..我初時都唔知 BNO holders 可以有投票權,我都係舊年先知。舊年英國個類似香港選舉事務處寄信叫人去登記做選民,我見佢選民資格唔清唔楚,我就email俾佢起問我可唔可以投票,佢地居然話得!!!

  8. 1. 正因為BNO holder有投票權,所以英國根本同歐盟解唔到畫。(否則你俾個投票權黎做乜,唔通托咩?)

    2. 我對國籍法有興趣,好大程度上係因為印尼華人,本來係國際人球,印尼、中國政府鬥唔負責任,自己搞出堆膠出黎就左踢右踢,唔識國籍法傍身都唔得咁解。所以我對中國的虛偽民族主義,當係笑話黎睇。(印尼排華好大程度上係中國干涉印尼內政的後遺症,無得抵賴)

  9. I am generally convinced by your arguments but I have a few questions:

    1) If UK grants BNO passport holders British citizenship, it is very likely that the Sino-UK diplomatic relationship will be adversely affected. (PRC is fussy with the travel documents used by HK people, definitely) Is it one of the main reasons that UK refuses to grant citizenship to BNOs? How can the UK resolve the problem?

    2) There are 3.5 million BNOs in HK, if the UK really grants British citizenship, tons of British passports here will need to be replaced/upgraded. How can the British-Consulate here replace/upgrade the passports within a short period of time? The observation page of the passports are now laminated and nothing can be appended to the page. Can they affix a sticker on a current BNO passport?

    3) Is it possible that the UK upgrades the BNO passport (giving BNOs automatic right of abode in UK and EU citizenship) without granting British citizenship to BNOs to avoid a mass replacement exercise?

    4) When will the UK upgrade the BNO status? If it is in 2047 there is no significant difference from not giving anything.

  10. 1. 基本上,要激嬲,居英權果役都激嬲左,中國依家咪唔承認居英權人士係英國公民持有人,雖然中方唔知點識別當中分別。

    2. 這問題,歐盟國家入盟時都會面對,這要靠逐步汰換。但新一批有生物晶片護照,內頁已經與歐盟護照一致,真正不同只係封面的皮。

    3. 呢層係最簡單的做法。

    4. 我相信未來兩三年,因為最難果關係過左,我相信做法會類近BDTC升級成BOTC的過程,通過新的英港關係法案,然後宣布BNO等同BC或可以自動登記成為BC來達致。

  11. A few more questions regarding BNOs:

    1) Currently the US requires BNO and HKSAR passport holders to visit the US with a visa. In the future, if BNOs have automatic right of abode (but not BC), is it likely that the US will enable BNOs to enter the States without visa? Will this act making a BNO as a more convenient travel document?

    2) If BNOs are granted BC directly, will it cause a “deflation” of a British citizen passport since BNOs are ineligible for visa-free access into some countries, notably the US?

    3) The GDP per capita of HK is better than many EU countries (even it is slightly higher than that of the UK), and we also scored very well in many surveys. But it seems that HK travel documents (BNO, HKSAR) are slightly inferior than the many other developed countries. Can you suggest any reasons about this?

    4) In the future, if HK BNOs have right of abode in the UK, will there an influx of pregnant mothers to the UK from HK in order to get a BC passport for their children? (However, as far as I know, ethnic Chinese children with a Portuguese mother/father are eligible for Portuguese citizenship, even Macau has been handed over to China in 1999)

    5) Currently BC passports holders can enter Taiwan through the visa free access programme but BNOs requires a special landing visa. And it is stated in Taiwanese law that BNO passport is not recognised.

    In the meantime, as a BNO passport holder, can we seek British consular help if we encounter troubles in Taiwan?

    In the future, if we travel on our “upgraded BNO” or “BC” passports, will Taiwan formally recognise we are travelling under the Union Jack?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entry_Permit_of_HK_and_Macao_Residents_%28Republic_of_China_on_Taiwan%29

  12. 6) I saw it in other discussion boards that there are cases that BNOs are refused entry as a visa-free tourist, or their student visa (UK Residence Permit) applications are rejected by the British Consulate HK. The statement contradicts you optmistic view of the BNO passport. (If UK has an intention to grant right of abode to BNOs, why they have to reject a number of student visa applications and BNO-holding tourists?) Can you explain why?

    7) Many people say that the British authorities seldom give help to BNO holders traveling overseas and they are often referred to PRC authorities for assistance. (There is one exceptional case — Ching Cheong is detained in China and I think UK has done its job for a BNO holder). What’s your view on this matter?

  13. 1. 英國一向都爭取BNO入美免簽,不過入美免簽這個問題,要睇英國人如何升格BNO。如果直升BC,咁美國唔俾免簽都唔得,一如持葡國護照的澳門人。

    2 + 3. 你都識講,香港的人均GDP比唔少歐盟國家,甚至英國本土都要好。現時香港旅行證件連新加坡都未及,主要還是中華人民共和國。

    4. 我相信會出現這個現象,英國人預左呢條數。

    5. 現時係中華民國政府礙於主權宣稱問題,唔承認BNO的國籍身份,因為直俾BNO免簽等同宣布台灣獨立,超大鑊,但英國駐台北辦事處照樣提供服務,你睇九份車禍就知。現時居英權持有人去台灣,可以申請簽證,只不過香港人甚少咁做。

    6. 英國內政部不嬲有好硬膠的種族歧視,內政部點做野,同英國高層政策無關係,唔好聽土共的抹黑。

    7. 呢個肯定係土共作故仔,如果真係遇到咁的情況,你寫信去英國外交部唱爆佢,一定有滿意答覆。你睇真係出事,中國幫唔幫到佢地?

  14. If all BNO Passport Holder gain Full BC Passport, do we have to pay Tax in EU? It is most important thing to know rathan than a uncertain citizenship right in UK or EU

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