我們有責任要協助游說愛爾蘭人了

很令人震驚一件事,《里斯本條約》在愛爾蘭的公投失敗,若能在2009年1月1日前再來一次公投,仍然過關,但如果2009年1月1日前再舉行公投都失敗,就完蛋了。

照現時形勢,如果沒有《里斯本條約》,在港英籍人士身份問題會出現以下情況:

1. 1983年1月1日前憑出生或歸化,曾經擁有過Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies人士(CUKC),不論現時有否持有BN(O),就算沒有《里斯本條約》,照現時歐洲人權法規已經足夠在法理上擊敗英國,因為在BNA 1981前,香港CUKC與英國CUKC只有IA管制分別。而香港由於未經公投情況下移交中國,並非像新加坡公投獨立,在通過BNA 1981時,香港CUKC並無代表在英國House of Common,會造成人權和道義問題,照英國駐港領事館容許1983年1月1日前在港出生,CUKC子女領取英國領事出生證明來看,只要有人發動官司,英國政府就可能退讓。

2. 1983年1月1日後出生的人,如果父母是CUKC,情況與1.相同,因為CUKC可以世代相傳。

3. 1983年1月1日以後出生或歸化的BN(O)或歸化英籍人士,如果不符申請BN(HK)A 1997資格,他們仍然受困擾,因為沒有《里斯本條約》保護下,比較難用現有《馬城條約》對歐洲公民定義與英國周旋。

因此,我呼籲香港英籍人士,如果你認識愛爾蘭公民,請儘量協助游說他們支持再作公投,以及在新一輪公投中支持條約。現時愛爾蘭人比較緊張權力很大的《里斯本條約》會否違反一貫愛爾蘭的外交和軍事中立傳統,這點我們要留意的。

13 thoughts on “我們有責任要協助游說愛爾蘭人了

  1. 睇黎愛爾蘭人唔係好了解里斯本條約……..就算係 d反對派,居然夠膽話自己都無睇晒份條約就反對
    可惜我唔識任何愛爾蘭公民,宜家只可以寄望第二輪

    順帶一問,CUKC可以世代相傳,但如果有一D人既情況係,1983年1月1日後出生,不過只有父或母其中一方是CUKC,咁呢個繼承權仲會唔會有,定係講明要父母都係CUKC先得呢

  2. sorry ,i don’t have any friend live in Ireland ,but first thing ,we have to know what ‘s reason for the Irish to vote no,i can using different way to tell them Lisbon Treaty is good for EU and them.using the youtube to them tell Lisbon Treaty is good for EU and them.

  3. ‘照英國駐港領事館容許1983年1月1日前在港出生,CUKC子女領取英國領事出生證明來看,只要有人發動官司,英國政府就可能退讓。’
    ========================

    我問過英國駐港領事館
    出世紙問題(補領, 兒童):-

    staff 話: 唔係我地呢種人(BNO), 去HK入境處啦!
    BC 才得!
    hung up!!

  4. reuter

    我在Britishhongkong果度廢時篤爆你係土共,但你玩到上我地頭,我就要處理。

    點解其他人Black and White去問,又已經有人去申請。你只係不斷貼你聲稱用電話問的結果,係唔係你想學高登某些暗土共,想抹黑成個運動。

    如果你廿四小時內無滿意回覆,我會公布IP同Email address,你自己諗清楚。

  5. I have been persuading all Irish I know since January, and i’ll continue to do my best. Please excuse me for not being able to change this. Some of my close friends told me they will vote yes again if there is a second referendum.

    The problem this time seems to be…the govt does not know what the people want/reject. If the obstacle is something that can be easily identified, may be the authority can re write part of the text and hold another referendum, hoping people can pass it the second time, just like the Nice treaty referendum passed in 2002.

  6. 事實上,今次公投失敗係只有歐盟理事會錯諤,如果身處愛爾蘭,就知道公投失敗係可以預想到的。反對派集中火力去宣傳《里斯本條約》所謂壞處:例如理事會簡化會怎樣減少愛爾蘭在歐盟的影響力,稅務和諧化會打擊愛爾蘭低稅制,歐盟外交集中化可能危及軍事中立傳統等等。而政府又因前總理埃亨(Bertie Ahern)的疑似賄款醜聞而無力宣傳反擊反對派的宣傳。加上《里斯本條約》內容蕪雜,令人難以理解,連國會議員都話唔明,如何去說服一般國民呢?

    同一位現居德國的愛爾蘭網友談過,其實《里斯本條約》內容如同Microsoft Word的Thread說明書——運作上非常重要但一般人無需亦無法理解。不過基於愛爾蘭獨立抗爭而立的國民主權無上論(Popular Sovereignty),任何憲法修改的事情都要全民公決。

    如今,雖然高雲總理(Brian Cowen)聲言不再公投,歐盟理事會會施壓愛爾蘭年底前重新公決,否則後果難料。而愛爾蘭政府會要求歐盟在條約內容上讓步,例如保障愛爾蘭低稅制以及外交軍事中立等原則以便公投「通過」。

    如果重決不成,歐盟只有重邀各國去重訂歐盟改革內容。

  7. Can u enlighten me a bit on the possible effect of the Lisbon Treaty on the Nationality of HK Citizens who were born before 1997. Have not been following related stories. Perhaps you can send me an email.

    Thanks.

  8. Ireland should have seen this day coming when they joined the EEC – they have been given plenty of warnings time and again in the ensuing 25 years that this is not merely building an economic common market, but rather, a new country called Europe, that an integrated Europe will mean there is no more neutrality guarantee.

    Even if they forgot all these, they should have noticed a wake up call when an earlier Prime Minister of Finland said with the Common European Policy, Finland is technically no longer a neutral country. The only way the Republic of Ireland to stay like Switzerland is to stay out of the EU.

  9. Gavin, based on our educated guess, the Lisbon Treaty ensures that any citizen of the EU countries would also be the citizen of the Union and that is not derived from one’s own original nationality. Since all but Britain has one nationality in each country, the position of multiple nationality is untenable once the Lisbon Treaty is enacted. Therefore we believed that BN(O) would be at least afforded to be a full-fledged EU Citizen which we can exercise our right to move and settle freely in the EU (including the UK of course), or even the resumption of full British citizenship!

    Joel, you have hit the nail on its head!

    The thing about Irish and British relationship with the European project is that they’re always in denial of the fact that there would be further integration into a new proverbial state called Europe. Unlike the rest of the Continent, both the UK and Ireland enjoy their physical isolation to Europe and hence the “Splendid Isolation” they received, by pursuing many opt-outs from the EU policies. Many really naively thought that they voted into a European common market only, but not the quasi-political union it is now. Ireland is not as Eurosceptic as the UK, but nonetheless many are queasy at the loss of sovereignty to the EU, hence this sorry state. Perhaps one solution is the dreaded multispeed EU.

  10. Joel and 28481k, you guys have got the points right.

    I think the 2 main things that made the Irish to doubt the referendum are sovereignty and economy.

    I have lived in both Switzerland and Ireland. Unlike the Swiss, the Irish are more pro-Europe and they are willing to ‘give up’ certain power for more economic benefit to a certain extent, that is why Ireland has voted to join the the big Europe family. Economically, Ireland know joining EEC/EU means more opportunities but the people may have to pay more tax. For example, Value Added Tax (VAT) was introduced when Ireland join EEC in 1972. It may not affect companies/industries much as most can claim an ‘input credit’ against the VAT collected from sales but normal people have to suffer as the final user of the product/service (the current standard rate is 21%). Did Irish voters reject the suggestion to join EEC? No.

    The last Teoiseach Ahern tried to negotiate a veto on taxation as Ireland is considered to have a low tax rate (corporation tax 12.5%), this is a point that the govt can work on to assure people to vote yes should there be a second referendum.

    The govt was affected by the Mahon Tribunal, the scandals and the step down of Ahern in May, which was a bad timing. Irish need to see how this new Teoiseach and govt to lead the state in a new era and the new Teoiseach has under estimated the no. of people opposed the Lisbon Treaty. They have not done enough to educate the population to accept the treaty, particularly in rural area. I have seen the first ‘No’ vote poster in Dublin city centre in early April and got 4 leaflets from Libertas by post and their supporters in city centre from April to June but just 1 leaflet from the govt about understanding the treay (not even to tell you to vote yes directly). The ‘Yes’ vote posters were only in Dublin from late April. Are they doomed to fail?

  11. 如果照martin oei所講既..1983年之前的人士自動成為CUKC既話, 又不受到里斯本條約的影響的話..為何不發動ECHR既訴訟呢?要顧慮些甚麼?

    其實我第一次學習到什麼叫CUKC..因為香港真係好缺乏宣傳…

    個人觀點: 我覺得應該先提出訴訟先…可能有些人可能因為里斯本條約於零九年不獲通過而喪失了EU citizen資格…但係起碼有人make noise 先..同埋CUKC他們會盡早獲得資格…他們先可以到一些歐洲國家宣傳…或者在訴訟上打開一個”缺口”, 方便日後可以爭取更多…

  12. Actually, when i was studying about British Nationality Law, i was so confused about this, and sometimes, i don’t know how to find out the trick points to against them, but we will not afraid them.

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