蘇格蘭獨立公投炸彈開始引爆

BBC: Timeline for Scottish independence vote

金馬倫同蘇格蘭首席大臣Alex Salmond簽咁嘅公投協議,為香港前途投下一個超級未知數。

好多人仲唔明BN(O)同蘇格蘭公投有乜關係,UK之所以叫UK,因為係代表蘇格蘭王國同英格蘭王國兩個君合(personal union)國家嘅結合,之後Kingdom of Ireland加埋入嚟。而呢個組合有好多奇怪殘餘物出現,例如Republic of Ireland嘅Irish連英聯邦公民都唔係,但保證喺英國本土有House of Commons投票權,Irish喺英國本土權利等同British咁滯,因為呢個同Kingdom of Ireland喺UK嘅殘餘物Northern Ireland有關。而蘇格蘭議會叫Parliament咁威水,議員係叫MSP,蘇格蘭嘅立法權又大過人,因為佢係蘇英合邦未出現前蘇格蘭議會嘅翻生嚟。

根本SNP班友嘅玩法,佢地嘅「獨立方案」事實係恢復Acts of Union 1707年前嘅狀態,因為呢個方法亦係可以令英蘇兩國共享皇室嘅唯一有效方法(蘇格蘭係本土嚟)。正如頭先講,Ireland都搞出一堆膠到無朋友嘅法律殘餘物出嚟,英國無歐洲戶籍制度下,兩個國家恢復1707年分開嘅狀態,點定邊啲人可以歸為British National,邊啲係Scottish National,喺技術上係極度硬膠。

以往殖民地分家無呢個膠問題發生,因為每一個英國屬地(colony)都係一個半獨立嘅政府,甚至香港政府喺1997年被倫敦譏諷為香港共和國(Republic of Hong Kong),因為港督經常為香港利益同倫敦抬槓。所以殖民地分家,邊啲係本土公民,邊啲係屬土公民係可以分。但依家蘇格蘭係本土嚟,一向無分,依家要分,點分?

所以一旦蘇格蘭獨立,本土嘅BC, BN(O)點分相對簡單,喺蘇格蘭公投果陣有份公投嘅BC, BN(O)可以default選擇為蘇格蘭公民(蘇格蘭唔可能再搞個SN(O)出嚟,唔駛入歐盟,蘇格蘭唔會咁做),但有權opt-out蘇格蘭公民身份保留BC or BN(O)。而英格蘭、威爾斯或北愛爾蘭嘅BC或BN(O),就保留原籍,但符合一定條件可以選擇蘇格蘭公民,呢個技術上我相信倫敦同愛丁堡傾得掂數。

只不過海外嘅BC, BN(O),處理不當會搞出大量膠官司,煩不勝煩,加上如果蘇格蘭真係離開,英國點都要「補充人口實力」,否則佢喺遠東嘅戰略地位,以及英聯邦使館計劃嘅鴻圖大計好難做,因為蘇格蘭肯定親歐過英格蘭n倍。所以我左度右度,2014如果SNP贏咗,好大機會出現係BN(O)要作出國籍選擇,蘇格蘭唔搞得SN(O),但亦無理由由得英格蘭可以唔駛找BN(O)條BC爛帳咁著數。好可能結果係全面嘅國籍選擇,BC or SC,是但一種。(BN(O)係當英國本土國籍,唔似BNP係同英國某個保護國有關,當年英國設計呢件怪物出嚟完全無諗到BN(O)未死晒,蘇格蘭隨時會公投走咗)

所以蘇格蘭公投係大炸彈嚟,如果香港突然成百萬蘇格蘭公民,我食花生。而我鼓勵在英BN(O)登記蘇格蘭選民,甚至支持蘇獨,只要SNP個條件對香港人有利。

對港獨派嚟講,亦不妨借呢次公投,學習SNP嘅戰略,以及藉發動在蘇香港人支持獨立,有否有機會未來香港獨立,換取蘇格蘭嘅支持。


21 thoughts on “蘇格蘭獨立公投炸彈開始引爆

  1. 我估Alex Salmond應該未諗到係蘇格蘭本土geBNOs問題, 到佢諗到時(而Scotland又如果巳獨立),應該有人巳經係法庭打官司.

    另外如果蘇格蘭視BNO係EU citizen, 蘇格蘭就唔可以留係Common Travel Area,到時England同Scotland會有一條邊界, 出出入入到要check passport, 到時SNP Government有排煩.

  2. 順便抽水:why Scotland do, but HK did not. Falkland will also be do next year!
    呢單嘢真係會諗起點解香港無經公投就 “回歸祖國”。英國佬無搞走數係事實, 但點解當年無香港人提出?

  3. Any precedence from earlier cases on defining citizenship, say Montenegro, Slovakia, Somaliland, Timor Leste or South Sudan? Or how Quebecois citizenship was going to be defined?

  4. 若果美/英等到2014先出手的話情況真係唔太樂觀
    香港而家以exponential growth rate 被大陸化緊…一旦冇咗三權分立, 應該冇得翻身…

  5. The whole thing isn’t that clear cut. For instance there are Scot expatriates in the rest of the UK. There are English/Welsh/Northern Irish-born people (or people domicile in the rest of the UK) who got at least one Scot parent or grandparent. All these people have the right to choose to be citizens of an independent (or almost independent) Scotland.

  6. 1. 關於Common Travel Area,愛爾蘭共和國本身已經係一個loophole,因為愛爾蘭共和國內部係唔知點妥善處理BN(O)同歐盟基本權利憲章之間嘅矛盾。我手頭上已經有啲膠到無倫嘅個案,但為免搞出屎出嚟,我唔詳述呢啲個案內容。

    2. To Joel: 歐盟好難玩完,除咗英格蘭人,其實其他歐盟人對依家歐盟呢舊嘢無乜大異議,散咗歐元,唔代表歐盟玩完。

    3. 蘇格蘭政府更簡單更辣嘅做法甚至可以容許dual citizenship,但英國政府未必贊成,因為SN(O)唔可能出現,全部BN(O)變Scottish,同叫英國找咗BN(O)條數係效果雷同。

    我覺得呢次David Cameron真係賭撚咁撚,正宗賭撚首相嚟。

  7. A son or daughter born within Ireland to two BN(O) parents would probably be granted Irish citizenship, as long as either or both of the parents are already possessing the resident status. On point three, if Scotland choose to stay within the CTA, and BN(O)s may choose to become Scottish citizens while retaining the BN(O) status, BN(O)s will have effective right of abode in the remainder of the UK, like Irish citizens do.

  8. Copied from “http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/293639/0090721.pdf”

    Citizenship in an independent Scotland will be based upon an inclusive model. Many people in Scotland have ties to the rest of the United Kingdom, including familial, social and economic connections. An independent Scotland could recognise the complex shared history of Scotland and the United Kingdom by offering shared or dual citizenship. As a member of the European Union, Scottish citizens would have free access across Europe.

    =============================================================

    It looks that the SNP still has no clear idea of who would be Scottish citizens. For instance, if I am BNO without RoA and ILR and bought a house in Scotland and have friends here, am I reckoned as a British with strong connection to Scotland?

    And I don’t understand what “shared citizenship” means…

  9. To S:

    喺愛爾蘭國籍法,British Citizen唔係exactly the same as BNA 1981下嘅British Citizen,亦唔可能,因為好多Irish係屬於一挺叫British Subject嘅怪物嚟。所以喺愛爾蘭法律,British Citizen解a Citizen of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,簡單嚟講,凡英籍喺愛爾蘭都解作British Citizen,至少喺Citizenship law係咁理解(但唔係入境法,只不過入境法都玩到膠晒,因為同歐盟基本權利憲章衝突),所以BN(O)嘅仔女喺北愛生出嚟係件Irish嚟(件事極無厘頭,但Border Agency只會叫你去愛爾蘭搞掂佢,你攞咗愛爾蘭GNIB再返嚟住,而愛爾蘭亦侷住硬食,因為要維持Island of Ireland呢個完整定義),呢個亦係北愛有成個完整講粵語香港人社區,勁到BBC Northern Ireland必須有粵語服務嘅遠因。

    To TC:

    蘇格蘭因為同英格蘭合邦三百幾年,連乜叫British都定義困難,更加唔好講乜叫Scottish,但inclusive model, complex shared history of Scotland and United Kingdom呢啲term睇,蘇格蘭可能為咗快快獨立,除咗BOTC同BNP(呢兩者要排除好容易),好可能所有BC, BN(O)同BOC都會派本蘇格蘭護照。即係蘇格蘭有意概括承受聯合王國大批膠史嘅殘餘物。

    當然SNP有爭皇室正統嘅考慮,因為SNP claim個皇室係蘇格蘭,唔係英格蘭。

  10. The Tory are in a definitely winning scenario. If the referendum is defeated, they’ll be credited for keeping the United Kingdom united. If the referendum is carried, they’ll be a lot closer to an outright majority since many of Labour’s and Libdems’ safe seats are in Scotland.

    What I found difficult to understand is the position of the LibDems (their Michael Moore is the Secretary of State for Scotland). They got nothing to win in this deal, although it’s in line with their core value to maximise civil rights and liberties.

  11. Ireland (the Republic) had already amended their constitution few years ago not to claim Northern Ireland as part of their territory, and remove the jus soli provisions in their citizenship laws.

  12. To S:

    係移除咗出生地主義國籍法,同對北愛爾蘭嘅主權聲稱,但出生時父母是但一位係British or Irish,喺Island of Ireland,即包括北愛在內地方出生,都可以claim Irish Citizenship at birth,British係另外處置。

    Ireland同UK之間嘅法律關係,係好離奇,正如Irish Citizen喺UK一定可以投票一樣。Irish以自己嘅總統作元首後,己經唔係英聯邦成員。

  13. 點解唔會對British Overseas Citizen 同 British Protected Person 有影響?
    反而BN(O) 會受影響???

  14. To Alex:

    原因在於 1. BOTC 是由英國屬土發出,等同在整個大英帝國的領土內有戶籍分隔,蘇格蘭要脫離聯合王國,對於不屬於蘇格蘭的東西自然容易處理;2. British Protected Persons 更簡單,在現今的英國國藉法來說,BPP 根本不是英國人,只是受聯合王國保護的外籍人仕,英國國藉和他們全無關係。聯合王國解體後,如果英格蘭/蘇格蘭任何一方/雙方願意繼續承擔保護他們的責任,那他們就會變成 Scottish Protected Persons/English Protected Persons/Both,但是兩者均無保護他們的義務。要是他們不再承擔這責任,BPP 就會變回英格蘭和蘇格蘭人眼中的一個普通外國人。

    但是,BN(O)是由英國本土發出的護照,你可以在BN(O)簽發地那行上看見的。英蘇合併以來,兩地根本沒有在本土制定戶籍制度,所以和 BC 一樣,不能借戶籍解決國籍歸屬問題,只能靠自願選擇。

    舉例來說,就是香港/臺灣要從中國獨立,要分辦誰是香港人/臺灣人並不困難 (BOTC case);但要是葵青區要在香港獨立,那該如何界定「葵青區」人?香港從沒有在本土進行戶籍制度,列明甚麼人是在十八區中屬於甚麼區的。最後的解決方法就只會剩下香港人在分裂後自行選擇加入那一區… (BN(O) case)

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